[ImNewHere]

I didn't say they had to learn perfect Japanese to be a fan, but I did say if they know enough Japanese to say that a company which does a translation for the subtitles on your newer stuff is bad then they know enough to not have to rely on a fansub. They can either get a region free DVD player and get stuff from Japan or get the stuff released here and turn off subtitles and keep it on the Japanese audio track. People who use the excuse that fansubbers are better than what you see subbed on anime from American companies are making an excuse to justify being cheap. You should also read what Aoicat posted in this thread too. He has a point there. You can call yourself whatever you want, but if your too cheap to support companies who bring anime over here then I don't see how you can call yourself a fan.

[aoicat]

/me enters to see the trainwreck he has caused and lets out a large sigh. The law of unintended consequences has bitten him in the ass again.

Look, I've been collecting anime for over ten years now. I remember paying 200-300 dollars for a whole series on VHS. So the excuse that anime is too expensive that I've been hearing for several years has really started to grate on me. 30-40 dollars for a boxset of a series is a darn good price in my opinion. Just go out and buy a series you've never seen before. Watch the subbed version, then download the fansubs. You'll probably find that there isn't much of a difference between them, and most of the differences are just a result of differences in translation. If you still prefer the fansubs sell the dvd's on ebay. You won't be out much money, and you'll still have supported the industry.

As I said, fansubs do have their place in the instances where a show does get butchered and for shows that will never see an American release. I myself have about 15 GB of fansubs in my computer of shows I'm fairly sure will never be released over here. However, they don't help any of the japanese companies at all, either.

[Animetigerlily]

Aren't we getting off topic slightly here...?

But just to add my words, i'm from the UK, so i can't buy most of my favourite anime because they aren't out here... Such as one piece... I went off naruto ages ago, mainly because of the increasing amount of narutards... and meh, i watch bleach, i'm up to date with the anime, and I can't exactly buy dvds if they aren't out on dvd yet, can I...? ((that came out really jumbled, i apologise)) and half of the anime i watch aren't licensed outside of japan, or they were stolen by 4kids and god, there is no way i'm EVER going to dirty my hands with a 4kids dvd...

I'm learning japanese, sure, it's taking me ages, but at least i'm learning, so you can't really moan at me there^^

[hazumu]

the recent dubs anime wise are pretty sad. they are quantity over quality. they frequently use the same pool of "voice actors" they have on hand. adv/funimation always uses the same people over and over again rather than finding someone that could fit the role better if their on hand staff doesn't quite work. if you are old enough to remember it (i have been watching anime since the 80's tyvm) ah! my goddess was dubbed by fans. animeigo went to cons looking for the "right voice" for the characters. in the end the dub of amg was rather good. the new voice talent now just uses the same voices they did for other characters in other series. what happened to the idea of learning to speak plain unaccented american english then learning to do what accent is needed? oh wait that costs money and uses time, with the huge huge huge list of anime that companies have to dub they can't do that.

second part of this "voice talent" gripe for me is the stupid assumptions. the half assed approximations of things like assuming anything other than tokyo-ben (the "proper japanese" as far i remember it being explained.) being dubbed in some stupid southerner accent. while i have heard the japanese view it that way...it doesn't work in english all that well. in panyo panyo di gi charat rinna had a simply endearing and calming voice, in english the southern belle garbage was pretty grating and not relaxing. in the 80's and early 90's they liked new yorker accent for that. while it wasn't quite right it was certainly less irritating to hear.

my other gripe bout dubbing in english is more from a anime purist pov...why do they have to localize everything?! i can understand some concepts can be hard to explain to idiot noobs to anime, but come on. with the advanced streaming capabilities of dvd and bd you can put notes or links *in the stream* to explain it. i remember dragon ball and the "tea" they were getting drunk on. i remember in sailor moo they had "donuts" which were actually mochi. oh super milk-chan got a english disc and japanese disc to allow the slower of the audiences to have their easy to understand yet stupid "humor". i stopped watching dubs b/c i realized that subs were better then. i simply got sick of the crappy localizations.

the second half of the second gripe is dub-titling. if you want a mediocre dumbed down product in english fine. you can use one of the 8 audio tracks a dvd can support (The spec for dvd platform and what you get is completely different). the problem is the translation crew for the companies tend to get lazy and take the dub script and use it for the sub-title track, killing any intelligence in the anime. you can actually have i think it was 3 sub tracks on dvd spec wise, so why not make a proper japanese one and then a dubtitle or something? if i wanted to watch dubtitling i'd rather just watch it in english instead.

lastly where is the assumption that all anime fans want a localized dumbed down thing coming from? while the average anime viewer may not be adept in japanese culture or traditions it doesn't mean they are too stupid to understand it. why not leave it as is and then use a subtitle track to explain it? they did things like that on the excel saga dvd and called it "menchi notes" so you could understand the humor or cultural references. the assumption that everyone is a mind-numbed moron who can't comprehend anything but english/american culture is a sad stance to take...yet most the dumbing, i mean dubbing in the us do it.

if they wanted to try harder and listen to, as well as not dumb down things, and try to have higher quality dubs i woudn't have such a low opinion of their "dubbing".

[Tigersoul]

I want to stop a fight here...
the complaining about overpriced Anime is _NOT_ about boxsets!!! We're talking about 1 disc with 4 or less episodes being sold for $24.99 --- I dont think ANYONE on here would say $20-$40 for a box-set is outrageous

Again

OVERPRICING IS PER DISC! NOT PER BOX-SET!

Also I did want to point out that occasionally an anime Dub DOES have good voices. I loved the voices for OutlawStar (I think the American voices actually suit the chars BETTER than the Japanese ones) I also have watched both the FanSubs and Dub and the changes made were very minor.

All this holds true for Hellsing too, the dubbers absolutely NAILED the voices for the main characters PERFECTLY imo.

In these cases I actually PREFER the dubs.

I am re-iterating that MOST of the bad dubs were from the 80s and 90s, with the exception of 4"thebutcher"Kids most companies are trying to be more accurate and have realized that most anime fans DO have a brain and prefer the series to be intelligent.

One thing that I'm going to point out though, a certain amount of localization is expected though. How many casual anime fans woudl have any clue want an Onigiri (sp?) is? Localizing it as a "riceball" is acceptable... calling it a Donut is NOT! *growls*

Also, to whoever said you need to know Japanese to know a bad dub (I'm too lazy to find and quote) I ask you to read the comment on localization. I dont care how stupid you are, it's OBVIOUS that's NOT a Donut! --- and 2ndly, I know *maybe* 50 words of Japanese (mostly picked up from anime) and even _I_ catch mistakes in the subbing (much less dubbing) of anime. There is a point where even the most casual watcher can tell something is wrong.

[Lenneth]

The Problem with many Dubs is that the companies that do them have the screwed up idea that if "it's animated it has to be for kids"....
(Not many today even know that original Cartoons were created for Adults, Created as "End of the work Day/Week Comic Relief" that were used as fillers for in-between movies at the cinema.)


That or they get the bright idea to change the script to what "They" think it should be.....

Political Correctness, Half-assedry, Morons, and outright censorship have already been the death of many Great things.

FYI if you don't already Know, Political Correctness is NOT About "No Offending" X or Y Group(s) it may have been at one time (which is better Covered by Common Sense & Tact) but is now just a variation on Censorship.